Technique

Hi! I am trying to write my first M&B novel and wondered if I could ask a question?  Do I need to write a detailed outline and plot before I start writing, or is a simple sentence for each chapter acceptable?

 In the past I have just tried to wing it, but have found I run out of steam part way through.  On various sites I have visited people often say you need a detailed outline, character sheets and back story.

 I am a man in his early 40s who has read my Mothers M&B books and have always wanted to write one. Hope this doesn't sound odd? 

 Thanks! :)

It is some what subjective. Basically you are looking to have chapter lengths of  between 3,500 - 6,000 words with most of the chapters coming in around 4,500 words.

Lookat the line you are targetting and see how many chapters on average. For the contemporary lines, most have 10 -12 chapters. For my line, Historical I try for  15-16 chapters.

At the end of each chapter you want a really good hook -- this could be a cliff hanging moment, it could an emotional moment, or a moment of anticipation. You are better off trying to mix up your chapter endings.

Does this help?

Good luck and finishing ms becomes addictive. And when I first started, I hadthe same question as you.

Michelle S

Dear Ms.Styles,

Your words of advice and encouragement are a great help.I now feel that I must develop my story along the lines that you have suggested.I haven't given the scope to the H/h to find out how they fell in love.I have to think of progressing by giving them the opportunity to find exactly when they discovered that they loved each other.

This should very likely stretch the novel to the required word limit.

Many thanks,

Anusree

Hello,

I'm new to the Mills and Boon forums and find it an excellent source of useful information.

I have written a M&B Romance novel taking material from the indian context and I find that the Alpha male view matches the Hero I have created but with some limitations.He is ruthless sometimes but never with those close to him.He is a nurturer.But he is more soft than the usual heroes I've read.

My story has a word count,using Microsoft Word Count tool,of about 37500 words.I've heard that one can add another 15000 words to this to get the actual.That is,instead of 250 words/page,I am taking 350 words/page with 16 words/line and 20 lines/page.Is it the right way to calculate or do I have to increase my story length.

It's great to have come upon this site.It's helpful and the conversations are very informative.

Hope to hear from the forum members,

Anusree

Hi Michelle

Thankyou so much. I fell a lot more confident about doing a little restructuring now.

Hope to be finished soon!!

Jane.

Hi all, I am new to this forum.

I have been writing my first m&b story for several months now and am not far away from finishing it. I have, however, recently re-read the first few chapters and am worried that my secondary characters take up to much room.

At least half of the second chapter involves lengthly conversations between the heroine and her mother and then a family friend. It is relevent to the story but I am now wondering whether to cut it out entirely.

I would be greatful for some advice before I hack my story to pieces.

Jane. 

Hi there, I've never read a M&B that is divided into two, i.e. H/h meet, fall in love, go their seperate ways, then meet up two years or so later. So my question is, is that ok to do? Perhaps have three chapters dedicated to the first time they met, with the remainder about the second time. Can anybody advise please?

 Thanks,

Karen

Hi Karen a reason why the way to write a backstory isn't in the 12 Points Guide - and that's because there isn't a 'right way'  to do it. You need to fill in the backstory only as it fits into the story you are writing. So any and all of the ways that you asked about can work, depending on how you as the author think that it works best within your story.

The only  one point I would make is that you really need to be sure that you need to put a backstory in at all. In a romance it is the story of the present day, the working out of the relationship between the hero and heroine as they are now that really matters. That is where the focus of the story should lie. That is what you should tell most of all in the book. The past is only part of the 'build up' to the story - and obviously in your story your characters had a relationship in the past and that resulted in a baby and  then they broke up - but you don't really need to tell the reader every last detail of that.

A brief sketching in of how they met is   quite enough - you don;t need to actually describe the meeting etc in detail. What matters is why they broke up because that will affect how they feel about each other in the present day but again you don;t need to go into a lot of detail about it. The reader knows there was a past but she wants to see how they resolve it in the present

So as I said all of those ways you describe can be used - as can conversations between your hero and heroine talking about the past and so giving the information needed without 'telling' the reader this.

the important thing is to avoid an 'information dump' where the whole of the past is suddenly given to the reader in a lump rather than threaded through the rest of the story.

 So  the best way to think about the backstory is

How much of this does the reader really need to know - what is special to this hero and heroine's relationship

How much does the past relationship affect the one in the present in specific ways - the things you really need to show

Make sure that the focus of the story is firmly directed on the relationship in the present because thi sis what the reader wants in the book

Avoid 'dumping' the flashbacks in a lump of information that will slow down the story and  be full of 'telling' not 'showing'

It is perfectly possible to have a story where the H&h have a past and not include a single flashback at all because there isn't always any need to show the past. The reader can pick it up from what is happening in the present.

To reinforce what i said at the beginning - there is no right way to do it - there are no rules. As the editors are  always saying 'It's all in the execution.'

 I suggest you studyt several published authors who have put backstory in their books and see how they do it - they will all probably have tackled it differently

Good luck.

 Kate

I write 'into the mist' (what a great way of putting that!)  In my head I'll usually have vague idea of the character, who often comes with a setting.  Then I'll just write.  So, then when I get to the end of the first draft, I have to stop and see what I've got.  That's the time when I'll draw up an outline of the plot and work out which scenes ought to come when to create the sense of tension and forward movement.  So my second draft involves a lot of cutting and pasting and tweaking scenes by adding a bit more dialogue or internal reflection.  I just find that this way of working keeps it a fun and interesting process for me throughout.  Whereas if I write an outline first, then I'm way too bored of it to want to actually write the book.

I just logged in to say thank you for buying the 12 Point Guide  and  that i hope it helps you - I'm thrilled to find that it's already doing so.

I'm always happy to hear that - after all, it's the reason why I wrote the book in the first place.  If you have any success as a result I'll be even happier

 Kate

What would I do without you!    Phew........it is 55K - why was I asking - truth to tell I may not be that happy with the last chapter - but I guess as I start to read, words may disappear from other places that allow me a little more space at the end!

As regards chapters - I must admit they end because I feel it's the point for them to do so -!

Oh - came home today and my 12-point guide to writing was here - looking forward to having a good read through it!!

Mavis

Hi Mavis - I've been asked this question so often that I'll just c&p my last answer  -

A Chapter is a chapter - is has a beginning, a middle and an end, much as a whole book does. It starts when you want it to start and it ends when it comes to an appropriate point.

I have had chapters of 4 pages and chapters of 25+ - the whole point is that it has a curve of movement to it - starting from a point A and moving the action/characters/development of plot/development of the relationship to another point along the line of development of the novel. This can be a major breakthrough or movement forward -  a step forward and then step back - or just a realisation that after all the debate/argument/ whatever - the couple are still totally at stalemate.

It is a good thing to end a chapter at a point that makes the reader want to read on - a hook . If you end it with 'and then X (your heroine) put out the light and went to sleep . . .' your reader will probably want to do that too! But you want her to want to read on . . .

The only RULE about Chapter length  is that there are no rules about it. What would you do if you had 25 pages and one sentence? Cut that last sentence so that your chapter fitted?

A chapter is a scene or set of scenes from your character' stories - it is not a set number of pages, words or anything

On the word count issue - that 55,000 words is the maximum word limit and it is best to try to work within it. A romance that goes well over that will usually read as too word heavy, slow paced or even wandering. It would be a good idea to take a look at it, read it from start to finish and see where the pace slows

Kate

I hope even unpublished writers can join in here ...

I start with a vague storyline and a specific historical time frame. My storylines vary according to the politics of the day. Then I go into more detail about the hero / heroine, creating their own individual timeline before I merge them.

I've read extensively about all eras I've set my current WIPs in, so any other era is a definite 'no' at the moment. I gain inspiration from history books (oh those bloodfeuds and rebellions! ) and from publications such as tales and folklore, and bring any unusual tidbits into my story.

However, in between I tend to go with the flow. I don't write daily, so during a 5 hour writing session on a Sunday afternoon I allow new ideas to grow. As long as they fit into the overall storyline, I'm happy to add them. However, I always bear the ending in mind, and work towards it.

As for the question of prologue - I prefer it when I know what has happened to one of the characters. My two main WIPs both have prologues, which explain the starting point. A third that I began in November for NaNoWriMo doesn't - but then I've been keeping it in the drawer until the other two are finished!

In many novels there are flashbacks which ruin the flow for me, or it drags out so much (e.g. the heroine keeping a dangerous secret quiet till almost the end) that I lose interest. I'm quite selfish there - I feel I should know before the hero does!

Thanks for all your pearls of wisdom! They are much appreciated.

Hi everyone - this feels like such a gift.  To (re) embark on the writing of a M&B - even to definitely decide to do it - is hard.  What about all the precious putting-it-off you need to do?

To find this site was joy enough - to find you women - writers - telling me about technique -  key words such as premise and character-arcs.  I realize I have touched on this myself in my first proffered synopsis/chapters - without the technical know how or labels - and how wonderful to delve deeper, learn so much, with all of your expertise laid bare.  Without seeming too gushing, I truly am delighted.  You feel less isolated - for too long I have suffered from 'they do that' syndrome (whoever 'they' may be) - not little me (ever so 'umble).  Honestly though - thanks.

A key image is different than a premise.

A key image is why you want to write the book, or what excites your imagination. The key image may occur at any point in your narration.

A premise is the hook where you hang your hat. It is the inciting incident and helps provide the promise of the story.  So for example, a marriage of convenience story, or being snowbound with a stranger or Beauty and the beast or Cinderella are all examples of premises.

Whereas a man sitting alone in his stody examining a minature might be a key image.

Does this help? Or do you need  more examples?

And character sheets - -well some writers use them, others don't. SOme times though they can lead to a focus on the backstory when the emotional conflict that drives the story needs to be in the now.

Michelle S

I tend to start with a strong defining image. (The poet in me, I guess!) That image - even if it doesn't make it into the finished book, or not in its original position - somehow encapsulates everything about that story, that particular relationship.

It could be anything, really. The silhouette of a man emerging from a burning building. A woman alone at the side of the road. A masked horseman in a forest, waiting in silence. It's an image that asks a question, and then the story that follows will answer it. *

Beyond that, I sketch out my main characters very briefly - key physical features, characteristics, background - but try not to over-do that process, otherwise I find myself losing interest in them. I don't refer to the sheets very often after that, except to check the odd detail. I rely more on instinct during the actual writing: would this person really do that, say that, etc?

The mechanics of the story though have to be down on paper before I can start writing. I know from previous experience that my plotting sucks, so chapter-to-chapter plotting provides me with a clear structure that I've looked at on several levels before beginning to write, considering theme, pace, character-arcs and sub-plots as well as more basic stuff, like 'does any of this make sense?'

Though that makes it sound more comprehensive a process than it really is. In fact, I rarely include much detail at that stage. It's just a brief outline ('she goes to the beach; they argue about Ben') unless I have a specific image in mind ('she finds an old piece of driftwood shaped like ...' etc.) which I'll need to recall in detail during the writing stage.

Because of those pre-writing guidelines, I tend to 'see' the whole novel in my head as a physical structure while actually writing, and if I stray too far from the initial plot, I usually compensate and redraft, or the book begins to feel lopsided, off-balance.

Hope that wasn't too rambling and off-topic.

*P.S. I've just realised that my 'key image' sounds like a description of a premise, something I've never been very good at. So maybe I should be working on turning those images into premises?

I always start with character conflict sheets/ character arcs  and an outline.  The outline has all the main turning points but is general enough to allow for a few surprises along the way. I like to know the theme too so I can use it to keep the internal stuff on track but sometimes the theme isn't completely clear until I've written a few chapters.

Hi Michelle and Empi! I'm great with beginnings so that's what I usually write and often how the story goes from there will come to me as I go. At least, I used to. However, I'm now finding the value in doing a conflict synopsis before I start. Because Modern Heat (the line I'm targetting) is all internal conflict based, I find doing a synopsis about how this is worked out really tightens it up and keeps me on the right track as I go through. I've also found that doing a chapter plan for each chapter before I write it, is really good for making sure that every scene advances the plot/romance, and I don't get carried away.

J

Yes, this is the place to ask questions.

There is a lot of expertise out there and there are many different ways to write a book.

There is also a difference between a first draft, and polishing that draft so it really shines.

It can be really interesting to learn about how other people do things and why.

So to get the ball rolling, I will ask -- how much do you know before you start writing? Do you plot? Or do you write into the mist? And why?