First Time Lucky?
by Flo Nicoll on January 12th, 2012, 4:37pm
Hi all,
This week, Romance HQ is pondering one of the most enduring archetypes of category fiction – The Virgin!
A traditional cornerstone of romance or an increasingly outdated convention?
Virgins abound in M&B books, it’s true. And for very good reason! A virgin heroine’s journey to Happy-Ever-After allows authors to tap straight into the heightened rush of emotion that comes with falling in love for the very first time. And what could be more special than losing your virginity to the man of your dreams, who will cherish you for ever? (A definite improvement on the usual ‘first time’ experience, I’d say…!) And none of this ‘virginity as a male prize’ stuff – this is all about what it means, as a woman, to take that leap into the unknown and give yourself up to passion with a man you adore.
But is it something that a 21st century reader can relate to? Of course, there are many powerful reasons why a woman in her, say, late 20s, might still be a virgin. Although, top tip - in today’s fully contraceptived-up world, those motivations do need to be absolutely watertight. There’s nothing worse than a 2-D virgin!
And let’s also spare a moment and consider the lesser known virgin hero. This is perhaps more challenging to motivate believably whilst also convincing readers of his latent sexual charisma, but done well, it can be scorching. (Anyone else with me on this, or is it a massive turn-off?!)
So that’s what I think. But what I really want to know is whether it’s a storyline you enjoy. Do virgin heroes or heroines appeal, or drive you up the wall? Is it something you’ve come to expect from Romance HQ, or feel is a required component of submissions? I’d love to hear from both writers and readers on this!
Over to you - let the Virgin debate begin…!
Love Flo x
first lucky
I like the virgin angle, as long as our heroine is of the  strong knows
her own mind type. Can't be doing with that type that fall into line
with some over bearing Alpha male, I like the characters to be equally
matched, Also like the virgin male angle, again if equally matched in
character.Â
 Android 4.2 Phones
In this day and age, the
In this day and age, the whole story of Virgins should be a thing of the past. I just read a couple of Lynne Graham books and although I enjoyed them I got tired of her continuous and tiresome virgins. It seems that all her heroines should be virgins, somewhat feeble and always blackmailed. It's 2013 people! Strong, independent, sexually active women now exist. The whole virgin theme needs to end!
Interesting debate!
It is rather apt coming across this thread today! My nieces came to visit with their friends this afternoon and we got to chatting about the media and its influence on young women as to their self image and self esteem. As young Art and Media students, all in their early to middle twenties, I was interested on their take as I have two young daughters who will be facing these challenges soon,Â
After much discussion we got round to girl talk and the sex discussion. I was pretty intrigued to find out that five of the six were still virgins, the young lady who had given up her virginity had only done so recently with her boyfriend of three years. What impressed me the most was that they viewed their virginity as part of their empowerment as women making their own choices and forging there own paths in life. None are shrinking violets, they are all out there partying and having a blast, yet as career minded young women they have their eyes on the prize of independence, view contraception as a medication to avoid until necessary and have a genuine understanding of the risks of unprotected sex.
Perhaps my generation were too inclined to see the loss of virginity as a form of sexual liberation, where as these young women here today see virginity as their sexual liberation. Their right and their choice to give it up when they feel they are really ready. Mind you I was well into my twenties, as were most of my friends before we started to test the waters.Â
However, I like the virgin angle, as long as our heroine is of the  strong knows her own mind type. Can't be doing with that type that fall into line with some over bearing Alpha male, I like the characters to be equally matched, Also like the virgin male angle, again if equally matched in character.Â
Oh and just to finish, the girls left with a box of M&B modern, seems they buy them through charity shops normaly and share them around the halls of residence, even the lads are noted for grabbing a novel or two when they get the chance, now that I do like.
Cheers Winnie.Â
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Fist Time Lucky?
For me, I prefer a slightly more experienced heroine. I think although virginal heroines are a fantastic reclamation of a reader's first time, there are so many fearful emotions that go with it, and such a cultural precedent, here and around the world, that virginity is all-important, that I rather like a break.
In fact, I am quite a fan of a womanr rekindling an old flame, or having never enjoyed sex before her encounter with the hero. That said, on occasion, I love the thrill of the first time!Â
I think as long as the
I think as long as the character is well fleshed out, a real 3D character then the virgin element is just the cherry on the top, so to speak. Another good thread raised by this site. Thanks.
Where to start....
This is a slighty odd one. I think it really depends how annoying the main character is. If it is a character that you like, then it makes it seem more acceptable if she does not want to lose it to the first bloke who expresses the slightest bit of interest in her. Like you said Flo, a 21st Century virgin has to have a watertight reason for wanting to stay that way, otherwise it is just a bit of a sham. The whole idea of 'waiting for the perfect man' is a bit corny now, but in some contexts I can see it working. There is of course always the religious card that could be played.....
There is also something quite sweet and endearing to a female reader about a male virgin, especially if he is in a relationship with a woman who is more experienced than him. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that that could be a potential for selling. Look at films like the graduate, where the older woman has a relationship with a timid, less experienced young man. They are massively succesful, and they have become cult films. Sex sells, something which M&B had sussed ages ago, but it doesn't alwasy have to be a massive bodice ripper. Sometimes, if it is understated, it can be great, especially if it is written in a way which the reader can sypathise with, or at least have some kind of assciation with. Â
 In terms of whether an older virgin is believable in a modern novel, then I think it probably is. You would be surprised at some of the figures. For example in a group of eleven seventeen year old girls only four of them were not virgins. This is made more surprising by the fact that only one or two of them look close to losing their virginity in the near future. Of course, this is not true of the whole of society, but if I'm absolutely honest, these girls are far more likely to be th ones who are going to read the books, and so they will be able to sympathise with the heroine or someone who has been in a similar situation to her. They all understand it, and when no one wants to read a book filled with teenage angst, it is quite an interesting thing to look at, and how a girl would feel being the only one among her friends not to have had sex.Â
 It basically boils down to the fact though, that losing your virginity today is not as big a deal as it once was. People have finally realised that it does not make a massive difference, and for many girls, they say that their first time doesn't count, and actually, it is the first time in a proper relationship that is the loss of their true virginity rather than the drunken one night stand at a party.Â
 GusÂ
First Time
I agree with Victoria, there something about the first time, especillay the hero because he shows gentlness with stenght that undo the heroine.
The fact that she`s scared but at the same time willing to trust her heart and like Victoria says when controls slips it is very exciting making you feel just like her and you can never put the book down.
It also shows a side of our hero how he deals with his emotions and seeing the change in himself.
I just love it.
First time, every time.
I'll readily admit that I nearly always read Virgin Heroine books - and the ones that aren't are virtually innocent. I've read non-virgins but don't enjoy them as much. I think this is because I identify more with the concerns or curiosity of the virgins. This is a habit formed in my teen years I think, when I could imagine nothing else.
I also don't find the early 20s Virgin unrealistic because it's becoming more common now, at least in my circles - people don't speak about it, but it's true!
I have accidentally read a few Virgin Heroes and actually they were very touching and sensual stories...but I'm still erring on the fantastic 1st time to forever story!
Did she or didn't she?
In reality, there are still some young women that make it into their early to mid twenties and they are still virgins. Maybe not many, but they are still there. So please don't pander to the vast majority that gave it away in their teens. Virgins in historicals are far more believable, but it isn't the only place one can find them.Â
Do I care if the heroine is or isn't? Not particularly. I just want the heroine's circumstances to make sense for the story. I just finished Nikki Logan's, THEIR MIRACLE TWINS, and yes she was a virgin. Not expected, very well done, added an interesting dimension to the story. I say, bring the virgins on, or don't, just make sure the young woman's state makes sense.
Victoria, I really like how
Victoria, I really like how you explained that. As a reader, it's been something I've always gravitated to, and as a writer I enjoy it as well.Â
Marguerite, that's very well said too. And I don't mind a bit of un-PC to be honest. ;) Also, liked what you said about virtual virgins. I like the idea of if it being a BIG DEAL. And I like the idea of him (or her) being different, being worth breaking out of what they've been doing, because they're so drawn to the other person. I have a heroine who isn't a virgin, but who has so many hang-ups in regards to sex that being with the hero probably took more trust for her than if she HAD been a virgin. So ultimately, I think, for me, I want the biggest emotional impact. Which very often involves a virgin heroine for me...but not always. Â
Virtual Virgins
I agree with what Maisey said, it's about trust. It doesn't matter to me whether the heroine is technically a virgin or not, but I do love to read (and write) stories where she's opted out of having sex for a long time or always because she just can't do intimacy. So she's a virtual virgin.Â
As to male virgins, I used to think a big no on account of lack of experience, but the first one I read was Michelle W's Undone and I was a convert. There is something very attractive about a hero who has decided for whatever reason to save himself. And I'll be sexist here and say that while I hate the taking of a female virginity to be seen as a prize, I think the idea of a heroine being the first to have her hero does give an added thrill. I know, that's an appallingly un-pc thing to say, but there you go.
Historical Romance Writer
www.margueritekaye.com
facebook.com/margueritekayepage
twitter.com/margueritekaye
The first thing I reach for...
I have read M&B since my teens and *cough* years later I STILL reach for the 'untouched' stories first. Is it because I wish I could turn back time and re-write history? Because surely there's nothing more precious to a woman - whether she realises it at the time or not. Or it could be because I was brought up on the Classics and my idea of true romance is the heroine's heady sensual journey from girl to woman with the man she utterly adores.
When I start the book it's as if I can't wait for the moment their control slips and they finally feel the power of true love. I'm excited for the heroine, impatient for her to feel the hugh array of physical and mental emotions. Reading for me is an escape. A dream in which to lose every clogging day-to-day thought and be somewhere else for a few hours. In that time I don't want to read about a woman who has had various bed partners - I actually prefer my hero to have been extremely selective too. Wrestling a playboy to the ground can be fun to watch but I have to switch myself off from what - or more importantly, who - has gone before the heroine! And I never seem to fall quite so hard for him - but that's just me.Â
I have only ever read a couple of virgin hero's. The first was a Desire, if I remember correctly, and it was very well motivated - although not as good as the second which was a Michelle W Historical Undone. I didn't expect him to be a virgin so I was utterly gobsmacked and very touched by the entire scenario. It was very emotional. That is still one of my favorite M&B keepers and I always thought it worked well because of the time period but I am definitely open to more of a modern setting. So I shall look forward to reading Maisey's new book in the summer.
All in all, if M&B decided to slide away from publishing some stories with an 'untouched' aspect I would be very dissapointed. I do expect it (as a choice) and IMHO I do believe that it is one of the many reasons why Modern Presents is such a hugely successful line.
Escapism and romance at it's very best.
VxÂ
Readers - do you agree?
Amazing to have the author perspective on this, but what do all you readers think? Can't wait to know!
Michelle, Mak in A ROYAL
Michelle, Mak in A ROYAL WORLD APART, which is in the US Dec 2012. UK July 2012. ;)Â
Maisey--which one is your
Maisey--which one is your virgin hero? Will have to download that for my Kindle. :)
Michelle Willingham
www.michellewillingham.com
Royal Weddings through the Ages - Feb 2012
Seduced by Her Highland Warrior - March 2012
Tempted by the Highland Warrior - July 2012
Michelle, I started that
Michelle, I started that book of yours while perusing my TBR the other day...I didn't know he was a virgin! How cool. I can already tell it's going to be MAJORLY EMOTIONAL.Â
Love this, Flo, especially
Love this, Flo, especially the line about virginity not being a male prize. It has EVERYTHING to do with the heroine, and how the hero makes her feel compelled to make that leap into the unknown, when no one else ever has.Â
 If a character is well-motivated, all things are possible.Â
As for virgin heroes...I like them too. In fact...he's coming soon to a M&B display near you. ;) Â
I've written a few virgin
I've written a few virgin heroes, and I ADORE them. In Claimed by the Highland Warrior, the heroine believed her first husband (the hero) was dead and remarried another man. When the hero came back into her life and they got back together, he was still a virgin (they hadn't consummated their marriage because he was called off to battle) . . . and she wasn't. That was really a fun love scene to write because there were so many complicated emotions.
Michelle Willingham
www.michellewillingham.com
Royal Weddings through the Ages - Feb 2012
Seduced by Her Highland Warrior - March 2012
Tempted by the Highland Warrior - July 2012