Cheating: The Last Taboo

Ros,

Thanks for your point of view. I was not trying to suggest that our increasing lifespan was the only or even the major reason for our changing relationship norms, merely that is is one possible factor that many may not have considered. When humans have had a blink in their timeline of existence to respond to nearly a doubling of lifespan, it is bound to have some effect on how individuals choose to live out all those extra years.

No insult or nonsense meant...just a point to consider.

Christine, it is nonsense to suggest that just a couple of generations ago the average lifespan was 35-40.  In 1900, the average life expectancy for men and women was 50. And that was very heavily influenced by the high infant mortality rates, so that the life expectancy of those who reached adulthood was significantly higher. I don't think that there is any evidence to suggest that changes in life expectancy have anything to do with the changing morality in our society.  There have been much more significant changes such as the emancipation of women and the changing legislation surrounding divorce.

Forgiveness is a very strongly romantic theme for me, and in many M&B's is an important part of the HEA.  I agree that the breakdown of trust involved in adultery is huge and that it can't be easily or quickly forgiven (and also I think in real life that forgiveness does not necessarily mean rebuilding the broken marriage).  But I think I would be interested in reading a  romance that showed the power of forgiveness and the rebuilding of trust and love in a relationship that had been broken by infidelity.  I agree that it would be hard to do in 50,000 words and it would be quite a different sort of book from most of the M&B's currently being published.

I've also read and enjoyed books that have dealt with infidelity in the case of a dead marriage (Kate Walker's, The Sicilian's Red Hot Revenge, for instance).  I do take quite a lot of persuading that the marriage is really dead - in Walker's book there was abuse followed by coma and amnesia.  In general, though, I want the HEA to be found within the marriage not the adultery.   I don't find divorce romantic in any way shape or form.

Really interesting discussion!

I still feel the infidelity issue in a romance for me is a bit of a live grenade - needs to be handled very carefully or things will not turn out well!  

Readling Flo's post about SATC reminded me of a historical inspirational novel I read a few years ago set in goldrush times in the Wild West, where the hero, an honest farmer, married a prostitute.  In the early part of their marriage she runs away and lets the man who helps her escape by giving her a ride in his cart have sex with her - partly as payment, but partly in silent retaliation to the husband she'd run away from, who was loving her unconditionally and scaring the wits out of her by doing so.

It was an awful moment in the story, where my heart broke for both the hero and the heroine, but the heroine had been set up so well that I could understand her behaviour completely.  She'd been sold as a child and had never known anything but being used and abused by men, and a husband who did neither threatened to crack the tough armour she used to protect herself.

I wouldn't say the infidelity worked for me, but I could understand it and forgive it of her because of her horrendous past. The fact her husband forgave her and took her back only underlined the power of unconditional love, which was the theme of the book.  Having said that, it was a brick of a book - 600 pages or so - and I'm not sure a writer could get away with in a 50k novel.

While it probably wouldn't be my favourite storyline, I might be able to go with a story where there is a sense that the marriage is long over and both parties have moved out and moved on, but haven't got the paperwork to finalise it.  Although, I'd have to ask myself why they're putting off the divorce if everything is done and dusted between them.

Sweet Home Alabama - which Michelle mentioned - is a good example of when it does work for me.  I love that film.  But the hero and heroine have been apart for years, living seperate lives in different cities - not quite the same as if they're still living together or the split is very recent, which might be a trickier story to pull off.

And I'm just going to ditto Amy. Except that by the time I've spent enough time to love the hero and heroine that much, I'm afraid I'd be even more upset if she cheated on him. In fact, I wonder if I might feel betrayed as well. 

Okay, back again--reporting in on how I feel about the end of THE DADDY DIARIES.

Fair maiden does go back to her husband, for several months, trying to make her doomed marriage work. But she knows she has a back up plan. In the end she escapes her marriage with her kid and she ends up with the hero. (It's a romance--of course she ends up with the hero.)

Now had this been a longer story there would have been room to show all the intense emotions, but limited word count means this story has an emotional let down in the last few chapters for this reader. The husband is portrayed in a way that this reader feels is unrealistic (he lets her go without a major fight). Maybe because of  where I work--my nursing and preschool special education background--is interfering with my ability to see this as a realistic ending. But in my mind this ending is too simplistic and doesn't carry realistic, messy emotions. 

Braun almost carries this theme off, but can't (IMHO) because she reached the limits of category word count. Too my mind this is not really her failure to convince me--it is the limitation of trying to handle such an explosive, messy, emotionally intense subject with so few words.

I realized as I was reading this story (1) the topic, if handled well, has to mirror real life (2) category romance is probably not the best place for this since there are hard and fast rules about word count (3) I enjoy occasional gutwrenching stories, and the authors who manage this in limited word counts are brilliant (4) it is fascinating to see all the various responses, but I'm still not convinced it can be pulled off well in category romance (5) what a fascinating topic!

I'm not automatically averse to the idea of infidelity being included in a series romance, but I think it'd be pretty tricky to do it full justice within the confines of 50 thousand words. We read it all of the time in single titles - one that comes to mind first for me is "A Minor Indiscretion" by Carole Matthews. I love her books anyway, but she tackled the issue of marital affairs with such delicacy in this. It's really poignant and honest, and she managed to make me understand the veiw from both sides of the fence.

I guess it could come down to the readers own personal experiences too. We all know that it's a fact of life that people fall in and out of love, sometimes with the wrong person at the wrong time - but if you've been on the blunt end of an affair yourself, would you really want to read about it for escapism? I'm not sure.

Twilight. *sigh*. I loved it so much, and veered between Team Jacob & Team Edward, which is testament to Stephanie Meyers awesome writing - she made me want them both of them to get their girl. Bella was always clearly Edward's girl  though wasn't she, even though she loved Jacob deeply as a friend. Knowing that def helped me as a reader to understand the dynamics of the triangle.  

Having mulled it over, it wouldn't put me off if M&B went for it - in fact, i'd be intrigued to see how it was handled.   

Hm, I responded yesterday before I started reading a Harlequin Romance: The Daddy Diaries by Jackie Braun. The h gets caught in a nor'e'ster (much like yesterday's weather) as she is trying to get back home to her son and Husband.

She had seperated from him, taking her son with her. But circumstances has placed the child back in the abusive Husband's hand. She is trying to get back to them when she is stopped by a run-in with a pile of snow. Along comes the hero on horseback and rescues our fair maiden.

They are drawn to each other. Kisses later they both stop. Hero is gutted when he finds out the fair maiden is still going back to the HUSBAND. 

Is this a "cheating" situation? In my view it is. Even if she ends up with the hero, instead of the no good, abusive husband. I, intensely dislike this theme.

HOWEVER, Jackie B's writing is excellent--so I am not throwing this book at the wall. Nooooooo, I keep turning the pages to see how she is going convince me that this story is worth the time it is taking me to read the book. (Oh how timely this discussion is.)

As I was reading through all these responses I recalled another HM&B book I read 3 or 4 years ago. I think it was a Superromance. It was either a HSR, a HAR, or an HR because those are the only lines I was reading at the time. The heroine live next door to the hero--he was seperated, but not divorced from his wife. 

The heroine was reluctant to get involved with a married albeit seperated hero, but finally she can no longer withstand the force of the flowing hormones and they get more deeply involved.

The wife moves back in. Okay, here's were I slammed the book against the wall--this was too much for me. But did I leave that darn book on the floor at the base of the wall? Noooooooo, I have to pick up the book and finish it. It hit the wall several more times before I finally turned the last page. I seem to have an annoying habit of finishing books, even when I dislike them. The story disturbed me more than the one I am currently reading. Why? Voice is probably a large part of it.

I really enjoy Jackie Braun's voice--I'm willing to be patient with her to see how she convince's me. But I am struggling with questions like: How can the hero ever trust her? (He is a protector.) Would he be able to if he was flesh and blood even if he was a protector?

We'll see, the jury is still out about this current story.

I also don't like cheating in romance books. The only time it works for me is if the cheating happened in the past when the h and H were a lot younger.  For example they knew each other in high school and then the H went to college and cheated.  They now meet again, both older and wiser and can get past that cheating.  I would believe that someone like that would not cheat again -- a youthful mistake.

However, anytime a mature adult cheats I don't know if that person could ever be trusted again and therefore would not believe in the HEA but would think the ending is a HFA (happy for now) which belongs more in chick lit than in HP/Modern books.

I also dislike it when the h and H are married and are separated for brief period of time -- say less than six months and in during the separation the H slept around with multiple partners.  In my opinion that's cheating.  And while I can understand if they are separated for years that this will happen I don't expect it when the separation is of short duration.  It is even worse if the h suffered during this time, while the H was off having a good time and then when everything is resolved he doesn't even bother to apologize.

Actually I am very glad to see that others don't want to read about cheating in their romance books.

I am more tolerant of cheating in historical books because usually the relatonships began as MOC and the men in those times tended to have mistresses.  However, once the H realizes that he loves the h and they consummate their marriage I don't care for the cheating.

I abhor "liars."  I don't care for books where the H is married (wife in coma, in a mental institution, whatever) and he doesn't tell the h the truth.  The h in those type of cases may have still wanted to have an affair with the H.  However, by not telling her he took away her freedom of choice and that in my opinion is indefensible.  A h even if she loved the H may not have wanted to be part of an adulterous relationship -- that is her choice to make.

One of the worst offenses that I've read in a book is when the married H who is separated lives with another woman while still wearing his wedding ring.  That to me is an insult to the institution of marriage.  If he wants a divorce, has moved in with someone else he should have the decency to remove his wedding ring. 

A recent read through me for a loop when the H mentioned that he had a casual sexual relationshp with his PA (they were occasional lovers) and that the PA was "very happily married."  This might work in chick lit but not in the HP/Modern line.  Once he and the h got together (not the PA) are we expected to believe that he will not cheat on her?  Afterall, he thinks someone can be "very happily married" but still have casual sex with another person.  Not my idea of a romance.

Great topic -- thanks for posting and asking for opinions.

I'm afraid I fall firmly in the 'don't think it would work for me' camp. While sometimes a person might develop feelings for someone they shouldn't, acting on those feelings adds a whole extra dimension to the relationship. It would take a really exceptional set of circumstances for me to root for that character.

I agree with Michelle - there is a certain integrity we like to see in our protagonists, and if we see them sneaking around and deceiving people they are committed to, it diminishes those 'heroic' qualities. For me, it would tarnish the central romance and steal some of the security from the hero and heroine's happy-ever-after.

Sorry...infidelity is just not part of the romantic fantasy for me. I like my heroes to be not just sexy but trustworthy too!

Fiona

I was reading along, thinking, no--could never work for me until I got to Michelle's post where she said "Or if the heroine was running away from an abusive husband who had cheated on her and nearly lost her life, only to be rescued by the hero. Then they gave into passion. It could work." That might work for me.

I'm out of touch because "white jacket syndrome" has kept me from watching McDreamy, and I never got into SATC. However, Joanne's explanation for McDreamy works for me, and I assume that the Big situation works because even from outside, having watched only commercials for SATC, I feel as if Carrie and Big are fated to be together, and Fate trumps all if you know nothing else about the story. Plus, I wonder about the society set up in the story world. Is it acceptable to try out more than one relationship? (I shouldn't even guess at that since I'm assuming from commercials and talk about the show.)

And I know this is sacrilege, but Jane Eyre doesn't work for me because Mr. R. lies. If he'd said to Jane, "You're naive and sweet and you need a love of your own, and I'm a little desperate so I could use your own qualities against you, but I love you so I'm going to admit I have this wife upstairs. She's mad, so we keep her in the attic, and I can't divorce her, but I'd really like to get with you.  And don't look at me like that--we have cellars, too, you know!" So that Jane could say to herself, "Well--I'm a little angsty about a guy who files unsatisfactory wives in the attic. What if there's another door with a lock up there? But he's right--they do have a cellar. It could have been worse." If she'd had all the facts and still saw his finer qualities--which depart for me on the manipulation--but she still makes the choice, that's her choice. Given the time, I can see that there's no other solution. Even with the suffering, the story doesn't work for me because of the initial lie of omission. I need Mr. R. to be whole and make honorable choices.

I love your misspent youth, Michelle! Again, I think Cary and James are fated to be with Irene and Doris--and even in their stories, both men have done everything they can to find their favorite wives, and they both pause before taking on their so-different seconds.  :-)  I have to admit, I've never been truly satisfied with The Philadelphia Story because Cary's not the catalyst for KH's change. Jimmy Stewart is. (And because of the divorce, I'm thinking the only possible cheating is with JS.) If she'd gone back to Cary because she saw how he'd changed, and it moved her…  

I do think the Parent Trap is the one that most fits the bill, except with a divorce, is it really cheating? BK and MS choose, with all the facts, to be together. (And you do get, in a Disney kind of way, the idea that BK has been flitting from honeybee to stinging wasp since they split up.) And they also have that sense of being fated. When they hug in the kitchen, there's actual relief that these two are finally seeing they need to fix their problems so they can be together.

It's the oath part I can't get over. The character flaw runs too deep if the flaw hurts someone else--even compromising the way Jane sees herself. I have no issue with someone's feelings changing, but an honest man or woman makes the honest break first for me. Otherwise, I think I'd always believe it could happen again. I'm clearly willing to give leeway for Fate, but someone who moves on to a new someone before breaking with the former--I'm not sure as a reader that I'd give him the time to redeem himself.He'd have to do some magical redemption or produce undeniable motivation in a hurry.

In fact, in Michelle's example of the abusive husband, I think I'm feeling the batterer broke the oath first, so that I don't feel the heroine is bound to her side of it--convincing enough motivation.

I was trying to think why RImmer's worked.

1. the back story -- the two main characters had a history. In fact it took the heroine being ready to move on for the hero to actually wake up to what he was losing. The hero in whose POV most of the first few chapters happen knows he has this one chance to change the heroine's mind. To prove that he is the man for her.

2. the other half -- the heroine's erstwhile fiance doesn't appear on stage at all at the start and doesn't protest when she ends it. He is obviously weak and not right for her.  So in the hiearchy, he is not v important.  Cord's book is v good about explaining about hierarchies and the reader (if you have ever wondered why you don't introduce that many characters in the first chapter -- he explains the reason behind it) The reader thinks the hero and heroine should be together. It is not the heroine being torn between two lovers. She admits to changing her mind and to making a mistake.

3. the heroine immediately knows that she has to give up her dream of marrying the pastor and does so.  She suffers. But she hasn't given her oath and it is acceptable to change your mind when you are about to get married. Plus she was really in love with the hero...but he has to work really hard to get her back.

4. Rimmer is a v talented author and was v comfortible in the long running Bravo continuity and so readers knew what to expect. (although this was a first time for me...my dd picked it up at Tescos)

It is though v very difficult to do well. Motivation is key because other wise, the reader recoils. WIth the right motivation and consequences, you can away with a lot.

Michelle S

One Cherish from November does have this (sort of) --Christmas at Bravo Ridge by Christine Rimmer. The heroine is engaged and about to be married when she sleeps with the hero. The hero and heroine have a past. They did the ONS pregnancy route a few years earlier and he can't believe she is marrying someone else. She had not slept with Pastor Bob and did immediatly end the engagement, even though she had not intention of continuing the relationship with the hero.  It was touch and go with the heroine and me BUT Christine is a great author and it did work.

However the heroine was simply in a relationship rather than married.

The whole Back from the Dead scenario has potential elements of this. But there can be mitigating circumstances. When it works, it works well. And generally the person who is about to marry has not actually slept with anyone new.

Or if the heroine was running away from an abusive husband who had cheated on her and nearly lost her life, only to be rescued by the hero. Then they gave into passion. It could work.

It is in the motivation. And it needs to be really really strong. It can't be casual. It is always all in the execution.

Michelle S

No way! Not going to sit on the fence on this one! I agree that infidelity and cheating is all around us (unfortunately) and having been on the receiving end of a partner who cheated, I know the devastation that it causes. This is too painful. You never really get over it and the point to M&B romance is that at the end, you TRULY believe the characters are so so in love and if they've been unfaithful, I wouldn't believe the end. It wouldn't ring true.

I'm sure there may be some situations that you just might get away with. perhaps kissing someone at a party when drunk, something that you can pass off as youthful stupidity, but not now.

Actually, I am the one to be different here and say that it's not a deal breaker for me, though I know it's a hot-button for many. In fact, as it IS a part of modern life, I would like to see it handled more. I think - as is the case with just about everything - it's all in the execution.

To remain sympathetic for me as a reader, the cheating would have to be as a result of a very bad breakdown in the h&h's relationship, or when they were very young and too silly to know better. Or in an arranged type of marriage where they have no feelings for each other initially. And I would be more comfortable with the cheating being physical than emotional because then the HEA is more believable. As to seeing it done well before...um..pass!

So, as a reader, yeah, I'm the odd one out and it would be good to see it tackled in M&B. As a writer, it would provide lots of room for angst! And I do like angst...;-)

Great post! 

I don't want to be conflicted when reading a M&B.  Only time I've found infidelity acceptable (in a cat. rom) is when one party (usually a wife, is lying in a coma, has been for half a decade+ and dies thereby releasing the hero leaving him untarnished) 

On the other hand, J R Ward has depicted some fairly sleazy characters (Black Knife Brotherhood) behaving in every immoral way poss. and yet I've ended up cheering them on.

Guess its all about context, execution and reader expectation.  Off to worry about just how narrow minded I must be to express my shock at M&B exploring this issue.  On the other hand, bring it on - I could do with a jolt.